Quaker Heritage Press > Online Texts > The Bunyan-Burrough Debate > Burrough, The True Faith [3 of 3]

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[cited by Burrough (1)] [cited by Burrough (2)] Now a few words I may write in Answer to the Queries in the end of thy Book, which thou directst thus, 'Some Questions to the Quakers, or a few Queries to those possessed with a Spirit of delusion in this Generation.'

Question 1. [cited by Bunyan] If thou saiest that every man hath a measure of the Spirit of Christ within him; why say the Scriptures, That some are sensual, having not the Spirit, and Christ saith, The World cannot receive it? John 14.

Answ. [cited by Bunyan] Some men are sensual, and have not the Spirit, because they receive it not,& some cannot receive it, because they believe not in him from whence it comes, [cited by Bunyan (1)] [cited by Bunyan (2)] [cited by Burrough] yet is the measure of the Spirit given unto every man to profit withal, as the Scripture saith. [cited by Bunyan (1)] [cited by Bunyan (2)] And it is given to within him, to reprove him of sin, but few doth receive it; [cited by Bunyan] [cited by Burrough] [editor's note] and when thou canst learn to distinguish between a thing being given, and a receiving of such a thing, then thou mayst be answered in thy self. It is one thing in God to give the Spirit, and another thing in the Creature to receive it: [cited by Burrough] He gives it to many that receive it not, to follow it and to be guided by it: [editor's note] thus far I answer, and let them that are led with a spirit of Delusion answer thee further.

Qu. 2. What is the Church of God redeemed by, from under the Law; is it by something that is done within them, or by something done without them? If it be redeemed by something that worketh in them, then why did the man Christ Jesus hang upon the Cross in Mount Calvery, without the Gates of Jerusalem, for the sins of his People, and why do the Scriptures say, That through this man is preached unto us the forgiveness of sins? &c.

Answ. [cited by Bunyan] The Church of God is redeemed by Christ Jesus, which is revealed within all that believe; [cited by Bunyan] and Christ Jesus wrought in them mightily, [cited by Bunyan] and it was he that wrought in them to will and to do; this is plain according to Scripture. [cited by Bunyan (1)] [cited by Bunyan (2)] And the man Christ Jesus was hanged upon the Cross on Mount Calvery, because they wickedly judged him to be a Blasphemer, and through their envy persecuted him to death, because he bore witness against them; and as in their account he died, and hanged upon the Cross for an Evil-doer, [cited by Bunyan] and this is one ground (at least) why he hanged upon the Cross; and the Scriptures say, That through this man is preached the forgiveness of sins, [cited by Bunyan] because there is no other that can forgive sin, nor the blood of any other thing that can take away sin; but the Blood of God, as it is written. And thus far I answer: If thou wilt have more, seek it from them who are led with a spirit of Delusion.

Qu. 3. What Scripture have you to prove that Christ is, or was crucified within you, risen within you, ascended within you?

Answ. [cited by Bunyan] There is no Scriptures that mention any one of our particular names; and thy Query is raised from thy mis-understanding of us, so I judge; but Christ is within us, that we dare not deny; [cited by Bunyan] and he is the Lamb that was slain in the streets of the great City, which is spiritually called Sodom and Ægypt, (mind spiritually) and he is now risen, and ascended, this we know through Faith in his Name: And I leave thee to receive a fuller Answer from them that are led with a spirit of Delusion (if they will give it thee.)

Qu. 4. Is that very man that was crucified on Mount Calvery, between two Thieves, whose Name is Jesus, the Son of Mary, is he the very Christ of God, ye or nay?

Answ. [cited by Bunyan] Yea, he is the very Christ of God, which was before the World was, by whom the World was made, who was made manifest from Mary's womb, and was persecuted to death by the Scribes and Pharisees, [editor's note] in whose steps thou treadst, in asking subtil Queries to insnare the Innocent, as they did; read thy Example, and thy self to be an Enemy to the Christ of God.

Qu. 5. Is that very Man, with that very Body, within you, yea or nay?

Answ. [cited by Bunyan] [editor's note] The very Christ of God is within us, we dare not deny him; [cited by Bunyan] and we are Members of his Body, and of his Flesh, and of his Bone, as the Ephesians were: They that are led by a spirit of Delusion shall answer the rest of this thy Query, if they will.

Qu. 6. Was that very Jesus that was born of the Virgin Mary, a real man of Flesh and Bones, after his Resurrection from the dead, out of Joseph's Sepulchre, ye or nay? for the Scripture saith he was, and if so, then did that Man go away from his Disciples, and not into them in his Body, as the Scriptures declare? or did he with that Body of Flesh go into his Disciples, as some fond Dreamers think?

Answ. [cited by Bunyan] [cited by Burrough (1)] [cited by Burrough (2)] [cited by Burrough (3)] What the Scriptures speak of Christ we own to be truth, and own him to be what the Scriptures speak of him, and all mens imaginations of him we deny, and their false interpretations of the Scriptures concerning him; and let the fond Dreamers who are in their thoughts be reproved; for we dare own nothing to be truth but what the Spirit of the Lord bears witness of according to the Scripture, thus far I answer in behalf of the Quakers; let them who are led with the spirit of Delusion answer the rest which concerns themselves.

Qu. 7. Hath that Christ that was with God the Father before the World was, no other Body but his Church, if you say no, as is your wonted course? Then again I aske you, What was that in which he did bear the sins of his Children; if you say it was his own Body on the Tree, then I ask you; whether that Body in which he did bear our sins, was, or is the Church of God, yea, or nay? Again if you say he hath no Body but his Church, then I ask, what that was that was taken down from the Cross, [cited by Bunyan] &c.?

Answ. [cited by Bunyan] In this thou hast not only queried, [cited by Bunyan] but Slandered; therefore first thy Slander I do remove, [editor's note] [cited by Bunyan] It is our wonted course to say, that Christ hath no other Body but his Church; thou art herein as in other things, a false Accuser, [cited by Bunyan (1)] [cited by Bunyan (2)] but we say the Church is Christ's Body: [cited by Bunyan] And it is sufficient for Salvation to know Christ Jesus to be head in us, and over us, and our selves to be Members of his Body, [cited by Bunyan] and what thou intendst by making so many foldings in one Query; it may be judged is to insnare, [cited by Bunyan] and in that thou answerest thy self for us in something, that thou mayst have a further ground to lay a deeper snare; we do deny thee, and thy spirit, and see thee to be only feeding in thy imaginations upon the report of things without the Life, and thy religion stands in disputes, and controversies, and querying, and many words; but our Religion stands in the exercise of a pure Conscience towards God and towards man, whether we speak or be silent.

[cited by Bunyan] Thus I have answered thy Queries, or so much of them as concerns us; [cited by Burrough] [editor's note] and as I have said, if thou wilt be further answered, go seek an Answer from them who are led with a spirit of Delusion, and let them answer their part, or else be thou unsatisfied; [editor's note] for I shall not answer them to satisfie thee, nor I may not feed thy Serpents wisdom, nor subtilty, which cannot receive of the things of God, nor understand a reason of the Hope of Christ in us, if we declare to thee: [cited by Burrough] For all throughout thy Book I do observe it is that which thou strikest against, even against Christ within, which is our Hope of Glory: And it is that Mystery which long hath been hid from Ages and Generations, but now is made manifest and declared. And though the wise of the World cannot receive it, but speak evil against it, yet is it dear unto us; and so much more precious, because despised by such as thee, and thy Generation. And such things are a testimony to us, and against you; and go thou with them that are led with a spirit of Delusion, for you are one in Nature, and the Children of God, who are redeemed, cannot but deny you together.

[cited by Bunyan] And now unto thee J. Bunyan, a few Queries I propound for thee to Answer.

Query 1. [cited by Bunyan] Whether is any man justified by Christ Jesus in the sight of God, but he that follows Christ? and is it not a work to follow him, yea, or nay? [cited by Bunyan] and what is the sight of God?

Qu. 2. [cited by Bunyan] Whether will that Faith justifie a man which hath no works, seeing the Apostle saith, Faith without works is dead? [cited by Bunyan] and what is that which works Faith, and where is it, within or without?

Qu. 3. [cited by Bunyan] Whether any man is justified, but he who is born of God, [cited by Bunyan] and whether doth he that is born of God commit sin; [cited by Bunyan] and is that within the Creature, or without him, which works the new Birth?

Qu. 4. [cited by Bunyan] If Christ hath lightened all men as he is God (as thou confessest) then whether hath he not lighted all men as he is the Son of God; [cited by Bunyan] and is not the Light of God sufficient in it self [cited by Bunyan] to lead unto God, all that follow it, yea, or nay?

Qu. 5. [cited by Bunyan] Whether it is not the same Light in him that hates it, as it is in him that loves it, John 3. [cited by Bunyan] if there be a difference in the Light, shew it wherein it lies, whether in its nature, or otherwise?

Qu. 6. [cited by Bunyan (1)] [cited by Bunyan (2)] Whether it is possible that any can be saved without Christ manifest within; if no, [cited by Bunyan] then whether it is not the Doctrine of Salvation which is only necessary, to preach Christ within; [cited by Bunyan] and is it not the whole Mystery of Salvation, God manifest in the flesh?

Qu. 7. [cited by Bunyan] Whether it is not possible that many may profess as much of Christ without, as thou hast said of him; and yet be damned; [cited by Bunyan] and if this be the faith to profess him born, dead, risen, and ascended without, then is there any Unbeliever in England, seeing all in the outward sound believe, and professe as much as thou hast said, yea or nay?

Quer. 8. [cited by Bunyan] Whether hath that man faith in Christ, who is not changed in the Nature? and is not the Lyar and Slanderer an Unbeliever, and of the cursed Nature, yea or nay?

Quer. 9. [cited by Bunyan] Whether doth any man receive Christ, who receives him not into him? if not, show how Christ can be received? and whether many profess him not, which never received him?

Quer. 10. [cited by Bunyan] Whether to preach for Hire, for Gifts and Rewards, and to Divine for Money, and to make Merchandise of People, for so much a year for preaching to them, is not true Marks and Signs of a false Prophet, or can any give truer Signs of the false Prophets, then Isaiah, and Micah gave yea or nay?

Quer. 11. [cited by Bunyan] Whether must not the Devil be chained before Christ reign? and what is that which chains him? [cited by Bunyan] and whether art thou come to one of the dayes of the Thousand years, yea or nay?

Quer. 12. [cited by Bunyan] Whether dost thou know any Christ, or preach or profess any Christ, who hath not lightned every man that comes into the World with the true Light of Life, or of Condemnation? and is he not a Deceiver that exhorts People for Salvation to any other thing then the Light of Christ, yea or nay? And how hath Christ enlightened every man in the World, if not within him?

These Queries, with some more in my Answer, I put forth to thee, that Truth may be cleared from all Slanders of envious tongues, [cited by Bunyan] and shall leave my work and thine to be weighed in the Ballance of Righteousness, to be considered of by every honest heart to whom they do come, and God shall be the chief Judge betwixt us in his day.

A Postscript.

[cited by Bunyan (1)] [cited by Bunyan (2)] ANd now seeing we have taken in hand to discover and lay open the deceits of Deceivers, that all men may come to the knowledge of the Truth and be saved, and led out of the snare of the crafty Fowlers; these things further we shall add, which are contrary to the Doctrine of the true Gospel.

[cited by Bunyan] [cited by Burrough] [editor's note] First, John Burton said in a Discourse with some Friends, That Christ had two Bodies, and one of the bodies was out of the sight of the Saints.

[cited by Bunyan (1)] [cited by Bunyan (2)] [cited by Burrough] Secondly, John Bunyan said, Christ's second coming is not his coming in Spirit, for his coming in Spirit is no comming.

[cited by Bunyan] [cited by Burrough (1)] [cited by Burrough (2)] [cited by Burrough (3)] [cited by Burrough (4)] Thirdly, John Bunyon said upon a Discourse, Of the Word of God being in the heart, in the presence of divers People, That there was nothing in him, nor in any man to be taken notice of.

[ignored by Bunyan] [cited by Burrough] Fourthly, One of their Brethren said, That Christ and the Word of Life were two things.

[ignored by Bunyan] [cited by Burrough] Fifthly, Some others of the same Members, in the Market at Bedford said, That they scorned that Light which we (meaning the Quakers) speak of, which is the Light that convinceth of sin, which Light they confessed to be in every man, in the same discourse which was with some of them called Quakers.

Much need not be said as to the laying open these particulars, for by the words themselves the wickedness and ignorance of the broachers of them are fully seen, to every one who is spiritual, and to them I leave this to be judged; onely this I shall further say, They have not spoken onely that which can not be proved by Scriptures, but some of the particulars are also contrary to the Scriptures, and damnable Doctrines of Devils, as might be largly laid open, in the third and fifth particulars. But I delight not in raking in such unsavory Stuff, but do trample over it, and return it to the Authors. Having summed up their Wickedness into a Sum, I leave it for to be weighed by themselves and others; and if any question the truth of the particulars charged against them, sufficient Testimony may be given by such who were ear Witnesses.


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